Episode 25: Ontario Provincial Election Debrief

Host Jerome James is joined by OSPE Taskforce members Pauline Watson & Nicholas Burgwin to discuss the recent Ontario Election and what this newly elected government means to the different sectors of the engineering profession

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Jerome James  0:00  
This episode of Engineering The Future is brought to you by BMS Canada Risk Services. OSPE is trusted insurance broker for member liability coverage. BMS understands the risks that engineers face in their practice and provides OSPE members access to leading insurance products, advice and support from experienced brokers as well as risk management resources. For more information on how BMS can help protect you, and even your business, visit OSPE's website, or ospe.BMSgroup.com.

Female Voice  0:36  
This podcast is brought to you by OSPE, the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers, the advocacy body for professional engineers in the engineering community in Ontario.

Jerome James  0:51  
Welcome to Engineering The Future, a podcast presented by the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers. I am your host, Jerome James. On today's episode, I'm joined with Pauline Watson, member of the environmental Task Force. And Nick Burgwin, chair of the research and innovation Task Force and OSPE board member. We will be discussing the results of the Ontario Provincial election that just happened, and what this newly re-elected government means to the different sectors of the engineering profession. Thank you both for joining us today. So let's get right into it. Can each of you tell us the goal of your task force? And what are some of the roles volunteers are assigned to do? Let's start with Nick.

Nicholas Burgwin  1:38  
Sure. Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me, in this podcast as well. From the research and innovation task force perspective, the volunteers are all individuals that join the task force because they have an interest in the rather broad topic of research and innovation. And the activities that they can take on are definitely individually LED. But the the overall goal of the task force is to try and develop content related to RSI, specifically for the engineering community. So whether that has to do with a particular area of research and innovation, aerospace, for instance, or whether that has to do with paint technology development, or data protection, or data privacy. All of these topics could be areas in which we might find ourselves with volunteers that join the task force. And those volunteers that join might have the interest to then drive research that  can be formulated into blog posts for the OSPE website. Or they can formulate it into podcasts or Eng Talk videos. There's a variety of different mediums in which we can share the work that the task force does.

Jerome James  2:50  
Excellent. And Pauline, can you tell us a little bit about the Environmental Task Force?

Pauline Watson  2:57  
Yes, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about it. I've been on the Environmental Task Force now from for about four or five years, long before the pandemic. And initially, we were looking at minimizing plastic waste. That was one of the big initiatives. I spent a couple of years working on on that and it sort of morphed into an initiative that's been looked at from the current taskforce on the circular economy, and that encompasses in plastic use. The other area, two other major areas that we're looking at currently, one water resources, and the one I'm involved in is the climate change initiative. And we formed a subgroup on that one because it's such a wide all encompassing initiative and it was led by three people. Tom Markowitz is heading up the industrial emissions sector and has recently done a paper on reducing greenhouse gas emissions from Ontario freight trucks, which is progressing through the OSPE procedures and Carl Von Mead is preparing the paper on district energy community energy sorry, and I have been working on for, I guess, the last couple of years. The project on deep energy retrofits or incentivizing deep energy retrofits as a way of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. And, and as was said, by Nicholas we are always on the lookout for subject matter experts who can add to these areas and we're also as OSPE develops their strategic plan. I think we'll be looking at different initiatives in the environmental area.

Jerome James  4:54  
Absolutely. Great. Thank you for that. So let's get right into it. The Ontario Provincial election just happened last week. We woke up Friday morning to a re-elected Conservative government with record low turnout. They had a proposed budget before being elected, and since being elected, have announced that there's going to be some tweaks to it. What do each of you, what do you guys want to see this new government focus on? We'll start with Pauline this time.

Pauline Watson  5:39  
Yes, I think Ontario and Canada has a long way to go in reducing its greenhouse gas emissions. And I'm going to speak from from my role with the climate change subgroup. And the Liberal government that was in power prior to the current Conservative government had a lot of initiatives, such as the feed in tariff for green energy subsidies for electric vehicles. And a lot of these initiatives were were canceled when conservatives came into power. And in fact, the Conservatives abolished the environmental Commissioner post that was sort of holding us accountable to our commitments, before reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and changed the name of the ministry from environment and climate change to what was it conservation parks, and the environment. So the focus has completely come off climate change. During the election campaign, there were various various parties had different perspectives on climate change. And I think the other three parties were looking at, you know, greater, greater targets and stronger targets in reducing greenhouse gas emissions. They were looking at incentivizing retrofits through more grants and interest free loans. And so I was disappointed that these initiatives weren't part of the Conservative Party platform. But, I think that climate change is an issue that is nonpartisan, and I think the Conservative Party and believe that they are as concerned about the rest of us, but the way they do it is going to have to agree with their philosophy. So I would really like to encourage some of our climate change initiatives to be considered, but in the light of, you know, what their priorities are for the province?

Jerome James  7:50  
Absolutely. And I saw firsthand, working in the energy conservation retrofit space, that rolling back of different types of products that you end incentives to, to retrofit, building an infrastructure and large equipment, manufacturing equipment. What do you do when these types of initiatives or incentives go away? What kind of advice would you give engineers or the general public to move these items further in light of the current provincial government climate?

Pauline Watson  8:34  
Well, I think there's a lot of things that we as individuals can do, and as a single individual that might not be that effective. But as a conglomerate of individuals, we can be effective. I did a recent degree in McMaster on Engineering and Public Policy, and my inquiry was on how you change human behavior to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and what are the barriers to changing behavior? And, you know, there are barriers that are related to policy and regulation, and financial incentives. And I think that if we want to get people to change, not just individually, but significantly, we really need policies and regulations that will help them. These are barriers that have we've been trying for decades now and made very little progress, because partly because the cost of the changes that we want to make are prohibitive, and there are barriers to implementing them. So I think we can you know, my particular interest in is if you're, when you're building new homes, new homes, you should make sure that that they contain all the energy efficient, energy efficiency measures that are in the Canadian building code and I'd like to see Ontario adopt those energy efficiency measures but but there has to be demand from the customer. From from the homebuyer and the other aspect is the existing stock of homes. where, you know, a lot of people are renovating now they're not buying new. There's a, there's a shortage of housing, people are spending a lot of money on renovations, but there's currently no requirement to include energy retrofit measures in your renovation. And so people don't do it. So I think people have to be aware that, you know, when you're replacing a roof, there's an opportunity to improve your insulation, if you're replacing your siding, you can improve your insulation, you have to you have to create, the demand so that there's a market and the government could help too by incentivizing, could help the whole green industry. So you have to match increase the demand for these products. And that will bring down the costs. And we can individually do that.

Jerome James  10:45  
Right? And green retrofits improve the value of your home into the future. Isn't that right?

Pauline Watson  10:53  
Yes, I would love to see, well, one thing that had been proposed years ago was to have energy efficiency labeling on require for the sale of your house. So that if people were to buy a house, you would you would know how much natural gas used, how much electricity it used. 

Jerome James  11:10  
Or produced.

Pauline Watson  11:11  
And that could, yeah, if you were to make your house more energy efficient, its apparent to the buyer. And and it could, you know, improve the price? You know, as well as the long term operating cost of a home. 

Jerome James  11:25  
Excellent. Sorry.

Pauline Watson  11:30  
I was just gonna say that are not things that are, you know, against the Conservative philosophy, I think that there's no reason why the Conservative Party candidate can't go along with this thing.

Jerome James  11:42  
So absolutely. Nick, what do you want the government to focus on?

Nicholas Burgwin  11:48  
Well, I echo a lot of the comments that Pauline has made, I think the clean tech sector in general, is something that clean technology sector in general, is something that is a is going to be a key sector for us in the future, as Canadians were, were a global leader in terms of clean technology development. And it's a bit of a shame not to see the support from the Ontario government to continue to foster those types of innovations and support them from being established here from being developed and having the research done here. So I think that that's a missed opportunity. I do have to give credit to the Conservative government in terms of its I'm happy to see they have developed an IP strategy. And they do have support that they're beginning to develop for companies, companies not just in clean technologies, but just kind of across the board in terms of trying to help out small and medium sized businesses with their IP portfolio. So trying to support them into how do they establish their intellectual property plan? How do they fund that intellectual property? So that is something that the Conservatives are helping to establish and helping to fund, I would say that currently the fund is only $58 million, I think, spread over three years, I think that could be a little bit larger in terms of dollar amounts, if you really want to suppor IP development and establish a presence where Ontario companies are really putting their roots in and paying money and taking the research and translating that into IP, I think there needs to be a bit more than $50 million invested there. I would also like to see from the Ontario government, this idea to expand on what Pauline had mentioned, is to be a larger supporter of a first adopter of clean technologies. For a new technology development that's happening in Ontario. I think the federal government, whether it was the current whether it is the current Liberal government, or whether it was the previous Conservative government, the federal government has been a big supporter of climate change and clean technology. And that holds true when you look at the sample development technology fund, well over a billion dollars that has been put towards funding, clean technology development, and clean technology companies in Canada. And I think that there's an opportunity for the Ontario government to follow a bit of what has been done at the federal level, but to try to push it forward on the provincial level. So that would be what I'd like to see from the Ontario government.

Female Voice  14:32  
We hope you're enjoying this episode so far. At OSPE, we're here for you make ensure government media and the public are listening to the voice of engineers. You can learn more at OSPE.on.ca.

Jerome James  14:47  
Excellent. Could you draw that line between promotion of sustainable development and incentivizing? What what drives incentivizing? Is it strictly financial incentives? Or would you say, IP protection works into it as well? Does that put us at the forefront of technology innovation, to rival our neighbors to the south? Can you put a little bit of a perspective on it on what actions actually translate to being a proponent?

Nicholas Burgwin  15:35  
I think it'sabsolutely multifaceted. It's a larger problem that I think just the provincial government can do. I think that part of it comes down to being able to bring in foreign talent that can come in and can help set up roots here in Ontario and establish technology companies or help support current Ontario companies expand and in technology development, that has been a big area where the federal government has has tried to provide support, which has led to a lot of international companies locating themselves here in Toronto, as a little bit of a Silicon Valley of the north. I think the thing that the Ontario government can do, especially when it comes to technology adoption, is to look at policies and to look at what the government is doing. Whether it is a policy that's in place that prevents clean technology adoption, or just new technology adoption, or whether there isn't a policy in place to support the adoption of a new technology. And I think that being able to establish a company or being able to develop technologies, and then deploy them locally, is a key aspect to starting and establishing and growing a company. And I think companies set up roots where they first can have an impact. I think it's difficult to be a company. But most of your products get shipped out somewhere else. And it's just simply hard to support that. So I think the from an Ontario government perspective, where they can focus is looking at policies that both support adoption, but also ensure that they don't inhibit adoption, because there can be policies that might simply prevent a solar panel from being put in place in a certain area, just because it's a historic policy or historic law that might just need to be updated. So there's something to be done from the provincial government perspective on that front I think. 

Jerome James  17:37  
Okay, so from Pauline's perspective, she's a little apprehensive on this new government. Nick, you see, seem a little bit more that there might be some opportunities that are arising from the current agenda with this new government. But it seems like there's a little bit of a cross communication between the agendas in the Innovation Task Force, as well as in the Environmental Task Force. Are there opportunities for these task forces to work together to achieve like, a team goal or any type of cross communication?

Pauline Watson  18:26  
Could I answer or go first on that one?

Jerome James  18:30  
Oh, yes, Pauline, go ahead. 

Pauline Watson  18:31  
Yeah. I was, I was quite excited by what some of the things Nick was saying on...I mean, I've been our taskforce has been doing mostly with the energy task force. But the whole idea of making these green energy technologies affordable. One of the solutions to that is bringing the companies to Canada to Ontario. And one of the things that has been looked at is, for example, windows, you know, there's another really energy efficient triple pane windows are available in Germany, the fraction of the cost that they're available here. So when you replace your window, I did mine recently, and they said, Oh, no, you don't want those triple pane windows, you know, they're too expensive, even with the subsidy. But I think it's important, you know, the innovation research and Innovation to to have those companies in Ontario, who would know that they would have a demand for their product because of government policy. And who could innovate and give us you know, very, you know, the triple pane, low in a new city windows at a competitive price. Heat pumps perhaps as well as that is another area, there's no, you know, we could certainly do that. If there was some sort of government support to to sort of almost guarantee or ensure there was going to be a demand for those products. It would, it's a win win, more jobs, reduced greenhouse gas emissions is great.

Jerome James  20:03  
I know for a fact that Ontario and North America are light years behind in heat pump technical innovation. I think that that's one aspect that is a key player or key component in our future energy conservation framework moving forward if we want to achieve some of these targets that the federal government has said that they want to achieve. So moving on to our next question. If you could have any policy point implemented in the government tomorrow, what would that be? What sort of out of the box policy points would you love to see happen or implemented? We'll start with you, Nick.

Nicholas Burgwin  20:57  
My biggest interest would be to see the government be a first user of clean technologies. I think that  is a very compelling idea, it's a challenging idea to wrap your head around that the government is going to be the first adopter of these technologies. However, if the government is willing to take a risk  and be that first adopter, that would encourage companies to set up and establish themselves here, and you can really drive innovation, if you can put the right incentives to say it has to be a clean technology, it's got to be a company that has 50% ownership in Ontario, or some other corporate structure that helps to promote the idea that jobs are being created here that the technology and the research, the assembly of the products are being done here in Ontario. I think the Ontario government has done similar things like this with the most recent investments into the EV space. I think those are positive. I think those are great. I mean, even just today, just before we started this podcast, I saw the Ontario government, there's a picture of Doug Ford at a farm field somewhere in Windsor, where they just announced a new battery plant that's coming and going to be established there. And I think that's great. However, the battery technology is not being designed or developed here in Ontario, it's simply being produced, to where it makes sense to be produced and makes sense to produce electric vehicle batteries where electric vehicles are being built. And so it's a logical extension of yes, let's establish a factory there. What I'd like to see the government do is drive more of, this is where technology is developed. Because when you develop technology here, the Ontario government will help support or test or evaluate that new technology. Certainly takes on a risk. Not every new technology is successful or has real commercial opportunity. But it does promote more research and development to be done here. I think the federal government has done a great job of doing that at the with the Sustainable Development technology funds specifically for clean technologies. But I think the Ontario government has an opportunity to do that as well. And to continue to, to give that opportunity to companies. So that will be something that I'd love to see as a policy that they could implement as effectively the first user.

Jerome James  23:21  
Excellent. Pauline. 

Pauline Watson  23:26  
Yeah, I there's a few. I'll try to summarize the points I would love to see. I saw it in the news recently. You know, we're all faced with this housing problem, housing affordability problem, and Conservative government was talking about a promise to build I think one and a half million new homes. I would like to see those homes be energy efficient, with the best measures from the Canadian building code or the best measures globally. But that leaves the whole suite of existing stock of homes and buildings. And I would...this is my off-the-wall one, I would love to see the government address the existing stock of homes and buildings and provide some incentive to people who are reducing their greenhouse gas emissions, who would put the money in to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions because that is actually going to be helping Ontario's numbers and Canada's numbers. So if they could put in a requirement or some incentive, whether it's through more grants or interest free loans, and set some targets for addressing, you know, say 5% of existing buildings retrofitted per year. That's what you need to do if you want to meet the target of net zero by 2050. That's my wish.

Jerome James  24:52  
Great, thank you so much to both of you for sharing your insights on the Innovation Task Force and the Environment Task force here at OSPE. I feel like we've learned a lot about the type of work that happens in Task Force say and thank you for shedding some light on your thoughts on the current climate in Ontario and in extension in Canada for innovation and environmental ideas. And for the listeners out there. If you would like to be involved in advocacy work being done at OSPE. Email us at advocacy@OSPI.on.ca. Today we've been speaking with Pauline Watson, member of the environmental Task Force. And Nick Burgwin, chair of the research and Innovation Task Force and OSPE board member. I'm your host, Jerome James, and you've been listening to Engineering The Future. Thanks for listening.

Female Voice  25:54  
From all of us at OSPE, the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers. Thanks for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode.