Episode 45: SPOTLIGHT - OSPE's Climate Crisis Task Force

At OSPE, advocacy is our cornerstone, driving us to create change and progress within the engineering community. To fulfill this commitment, we've established five task forces, each focused on conducting research and providing policy recommendations in areas critical to engineers in Ontario.

In part two of our series, we spotlight the work being done by OSPE's Climate Crisis Task Force. Host Jerome James speaks with  task force chair Geoff Sheffrin about important work being done to advocate for sustainable solutions and influence government policy to combat climate change in Ontario.

From EV infrastructure to green hydrogen, tune in to learn how engineers can leverage their skills to contribute to a greener future.

Transcript

ENGINEERING THE FUTURE, EPISODE 45

SPOTLIGHT: OSPE’s Climate Crisis Task Force

JEROME JAMES

This episode of Engineering the Future has been brought to you by the Nuclear Waste Management Organization. NWMO is the national organization responsible for safely managing Canada's used nuclear fuel, a critical component of Canada's long-term sustainable energy strategy. Want to learn more about NWMO's plans for the future? Visit nwmo.ca.

FEMALE NARRATOR

This podcast is brought to you by OSPE, the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers, the advocacy body for professional engineers in the engineering community in Ontario.

JEROME JAMES

Welcome to Engineering the Future, a podcast brought to you by the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers. I am your host, Jerome James. At OSPE, advocacy is our cornerstone, driving us to create change and progress within the engineering community. To fulfill this commitment, we've established five task forces, each focused on conducting research and providing policy recommendations in areas critical to engineers in Ontario. With us today to help shine a spotlight on the work being done by OSPE's Climate Crisis Task Force is Chair of the Task Force, Geoff Sheffrin, professional engineer and owner of OBK Technology Ltd. Geoff, welcome to Engineering the Future.

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Jerome, thank you. Delighted to be here.

JEROME JAMES

Excellent. Let's just jump right in. Perfect. Please, if you can, give us a brief overview of OSPE's Climate Task Force and what their objectives is.

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Well, what we're trying to do is to find ways of making sure that the chopping list of initiatives that relate to climate crisis mitigation, adaption, and control and reversal is handled in such a way that we can provide position papers to the provincial government and broader if necessary, and then push the various initiatives that are green. And we'll get into some of those in a few minutes as we talk about the particular initiatives.

JEROME JAMES

Great. What motivated you to take on the role of chair of the task force?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Well, that I think is fairly simple. I'd already been doing some blogs. I did two editorials for the OSPE magazine about two years ago, 18 months ago, and did my own series of podcasts. And during the course of that, in meeting up with Sandra and the like, I was asked whether or not I might participate in the Climate Crisis Task Force because OSPE was reinitiating some of those activities a little over a year ago. So I was motivated to do that because, you know, whilst I don't consider myself to be an expert in climate crisis, I'm certainly an avid student of it. Therefore, I know a lot about

JEROME JAMES

That makes sense. So let's start talking about some of the current challenges when it comes to dealing with the climate crisis. What are some of the most pressing climate related challenges would you say Ontario is facing currently within the engineering profession?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

If I may, I'd like to put it into a bigger context for a second. If I go back over the last two years and I do a lot of looking at the data, we are still globally at 420 parts per million of CO2. The ocean pH has dropped by one point, becoming more acidic. The atmospheric temperature is now just a hair above the 2015 climate accord from Paris. And we've got about a one degree Celsius rise in ocean temperatures. All of these things are a disaster and they're not going backwards. However, if I focus in on Ontario, Ontario, if I then compare it to Iceland and some of the Scandinavian countries, Ontario is actually in extremely good shape. So we just want to make sure that everything that we have that is green stays there. Governments don't reverse on decisions. And we'll get into a few of the initiatives because we've been quite instrumental in persuading the provincial government in order to make sure that the activities that relate to climate adaption, mitigation, and general greening stay intact. And if there's some black backsliding, so to speak, then we jump up and down and get involved and get excited about making sure they don't go in the wrong direction.

JEROME JAMES

So are you saying that Ontario is in a good place from a legislation policy perspective or are we in a good place from a climate catastrophe situation or climate change perspective?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

I would say neither is perfect, Jerome, but both are in better conditions than many others. If I look at other provinces in Canada, particularly out west, or I look at some other countries around the world, Ontario is really in much better shape, both legislatively, et cetera, and I like to think that our OSPE task force and the other task forces within OSPE on sustainability and energy, we've all had an impact on that. And so all of those things, I think, have been moving in the right direction. And our task is to identify the opportunities and keep them moving in the right direction. Because politicians, no disrespect intended, politicians are politicians. And if the vote is going in another direction, they'll backslide and some of these initiatives will fall off the table.

JEROME JAMES

That's interesting perspective. So how would you see the impact of climate change affecting communities and infrastructures in Ontario if things were to get worse? And how does engineers come into addressing this challenge?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Well, one of the issues I've mentioned in my previous podcast is that everything we have in this world, if it didn't come from Mother Nature, wasn't natural, it's been engineered somehow. So all of the climate crisis things that we are currently dealing with ultimately are the outcome of everything we have created. So our task as engineers is to figure out how to reverse that. From an engineering technology viewpoint, it's not difficult to figure out how to reverse it. What it needs is political leadership and money. So those are the issues. And whether that's in a global context, whether that's in a US or a European context or elsewhere in the world, China, for example, or Russia, if I look at Ontario, that's still the requirement. We need to stay on track with greening.

JEROME JAMES

It's an interesting perspective and something that we need to keep reiterating. Everything that is man-made has been engineered and is being introduced into the natural space. I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about the task force initiatives for a moment. Can you discuss some of the key initiatives and projects that the Climate Change Crisis Task Force is currently working on?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Well, maybe I'll just take you through the headings, and if you want to stop me on anyone to ask a question, we can do that. But let me start off by saying I've got a very knowledgeable group of volunteers, probably about 15 people involved, and they all put their arms around one or two of these initiatives. For example, developing a sustainable grid and the grid infrastructure capacity with resilience and cybersecurity. You know, I have a small group that's taking care of that. And they're in that part of the industry sector, so they know what they're talking about. We're looking at EVs and we're looking at battery technology. And we're not pushing EVs because that already has a momentum. But the battery technology and recycling and recovery of metals from that, that's an important initiative. So we have a couple of our people who are looking at that, leading it. Then we have green hydrogen. I'm a great advocate for green hydrogen, but And green hydrogen is important but it requires an incredible amount of electricity to be green as opposed to the grey, the purple and the others which all come from variations of fossil fuels. But the problem with hydrogen is you can't put hydrogen in passenger cars conveniently because the distribution infrastructure for domestic transport is very complex for hydrogen. But if I'm trying to hydrogen power trains across Canada or long-distance trucking, that becomes more viable. It's not a slam dunk. We're not there yet, but it's possible. So if we're looking at that, we were very instrumental from OSPE perspective. Pickering was not on the radar screen in terms of refurbishing the Pickering 2 units. We were able to persuade the government as part of the persuasion process from OSPE that this is an essential. And lo and behold, we now have that on the task list. So that's working. We're also working on a number of other things in that area. Darlington, for example, is working on SMRs. I like to think we have been instrumental in supporting the further development. So one of them is in the final planning stages right now. and there are three more anticipated. So, you know, that to me is very important because small-scale, manufacturable, factory-buildable nuclear is important to our northern communities because 97% of our indigenous northern communities run on diesel generators. So, we've got to get them off that because that's a big contributor to the fossil problem.

FEMALE NARRATOR

We hope you're enjoying this episode so far. At OSPE, we're here for you, making sure government, media, and the public are listening to the voice of engineers. You can learn more at ospi.on.ca.

JEROME JAMES

I want to just point something out here. It sounds like the climate crisis task force is very cross-disciplinary. You have a lot, I hear cybersecurity, I hear EVs, I hear energy production, storage. So would you like say that it is a multidisciplinary endeavor?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Very much so, because when you think about it, there is no one single solution for the climate crisis, whether it's global or whether it's here in Ontario. You know, we're lucky in Ontario, which is why I speak highly of us, because we have over well over 90% of our power generation here in Ontario is from green sources with hydroelectric and nuclear being the biggest of them. And we have quite a lot of solar and wind. But you know, well over 90% of what we have here is already green. We just need to make sure we increase its capacity, increase our ability to distribute it. So to answer your question, are we multidisciplined? Yeah, because there are so many factors involved in keeping us ahead of the curve. We need to keep our eye on all of them. That's why we're multidisciplined.

JEROME JAMES

So you spoke about some of these, I guess, legislation or policy wins that the group has been able to accomplish. I would love to hear what you have bubbling on the pipeline of next steps or next wins that you guys are working on. But if you can talk about that with a broad outlook on how these collaborations come about, maybe through government agencies or industry partners, how does an idea come to fruition as a policy win through Task Force?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Well, let me touch on a couple of them, because one of them, of course, is critical minerals and the involvement of the Indigenous community and the sustainable supply of responsibly produced critical minerals. Now, I like to think, with us quietly nudging this process forward, in today's Globe and Mail, I read that there is now approval with the Indigenous communities and the Ontario government that we're going to start putting a road infrastructure up to the Ring of Fire. Well, that's a critical beast. We can't start unless I have roads and power up there to be able to mine for critical minerals and do it in concert with the indigenous communities. So there's three elements there that we have been gently pushing, and I like to think we have been part of that persuasion process.

JEROME JAMES

Excellent. That would be a really great win for the province if that goes ahead and another win for the climate change task force.

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Absolutely. But you know, there's another aspect that's worth mentioning in that regard. Because ultimately, globally, if we're going to make a sustainable future, we've got to be able to measure the metrics. We have auditing processes in finance, but we don't have good, well-structured audit processes in climate. We have ESG. We have the International Standards Sustainability Board. The federal government is now got on board with that. And our task at the moment is to make sure that Ontario doesn't dream up something different, but gets involved in the same thing. Because if this is going to work, we have to have measurable metrics within Ontario, within Canada, across the globe, so people can be held accountable for the improvement deliverables which are so essential to our future. If I don't audit financial things in companies, they go to hell in a handbasket. So I need to find exactly the same mechanisms. So one of our initiatives here, Jerome, which I think is important, we are currently pushing through OSPE and the engineering community. We need to create a set of engineering qualifications where professional engineers can be positioned as the auditors of these processes. That's critical because at the moment we don't actually have a structure like that. So we need those people in place.

JEROME JAMES

Well said. I want to switch gears a little bit again to talk about mitigation and adaptation strategies. What strategies is the Climate Crisis Task Force advocating for to mitigate the impacts of climate change and to adapt to a changing climate?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Well, I can answer that by saying that the Climate Crisis Task Force itself does not do a lot in that area. However, as the chair of the Climate Crisis Task Force, Sandra, who is the president of OSPE, has given me the mandate to make sure that the Energy Task Force and the Sustainable Cities Task Force actually have their climate elements overviewed by me because the question you're asking really in terms of adaptability and moderation, all of those things actually sit within those two task forces and they have their own shopping list of initiatives. And my job is to make sure that those move forward. So as the Climate Crisis Task Force needs to put some impetus behind what we're pressing the provincial government to do, then we are equipped with them to join forces to push that forward.

JEROME JAMES

And would you say that the task force promotes sustainability and sustainable practices within the projects that you're promoting?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Yes, very much. Very much.

JEROME JAMES

Shifting over to policy and advocacy, and we touched on it a little bit, but I want to dive into it a little bit more. What policy changes or initiatives is the Climate Crisis Task Force currently advocating for to support climate action in Ontario?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Well, I think it's continuing to push the prospective outcomes of the various initiatives that I've just mentioned. We've just had a change in the Ministry of Energy, right? So, Todd Smith has now switched with Stephen Lecce. So, we're waiting a little while because we need to get in front of Stephen Lecce and make sure that he and we are on the same page about the climate crisis issues. We've also been working with the Green Party. So we try to meet with the provincial governments and the leadership there. We try to get involved in their particular requirements to understand their needs. And then if they have particular questions they want us to give them information on, or a white paper on, or some position papers on, then we roll up our sleeves and get that sort of thing done to help them move the climate initiatives forward.

JEROME JAMES

 And what kind of outlets or avenues does OSPE engage with policymakers and government officials to influence these policy decisions?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Well, it's face-to-face meetings. It's white papers that we issue about particular things. And we listen to what they're talking about and what they're looking to do. And we respond accordingly through communication, through face-to-face, through a variety of initiatives. And Paula and Bojana, under Sandra's guidance, they do a lot of good work in that area. So we back them up as we deal with the provincial ministers involved.

JEROME JAMES

Excellent. And how can engineers leverage their skills and expertise to develop innovative solutions to combat climate change?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Well, you know, that's one of the interesting things about being an engineer. When you graduate, or even if you've graduated and you're looking to make a career change, There is so much activity out there in the green engineering field, a number of which I've mentioned, whether it's SMRs in Darlington, whether you want to work in nuclear, whether you want to work in hydrogen, there are so many avenues, putting EV infrastructure around so charging grids are more universally available throughout the province and the country. You know, all of these things require engineers and the engineers are there. They just need to say, Oh, I think I can make a contribution to that one. Roll up their sleeves and use their professional skills and get involved with the suppliers, the supply chain, and those things that develop and deliver those requirements. So I think to put it very bluntly, the world is their oyster. Roll up your sleeves, get involved.

JEROME JAMES

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And for the future outlook, what are your hopes and goals for the Climate Change Task Force in the coming years? How do you envision the role of engineers in addressing the climate crisis evolving?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

I can tell you, I certainly would want to make sure that provincial government, because that's our mandate through OSPE, stays focused. We're coming up for an election within a couple of years, if not earlier. So we need to make sure if there's a change in that, that the politicians stay on track. Because when I look at the federal government and some of the opposition party denials about what's going on, we can't afford that sort of thing. We can't afford it provincially, we can't afford it federally, and we can't afford it globally. But it's happening. What always drives this is money. And there's money in fossil fuels. And whilst I'm not too happy about what we're doing, the economic sense of fossil fuels for Ontario and for Canada is critical. until we have a totally green infrastructure to replace it. So, you know, I'm not against fossil fuels, but we really have to work on phasing them out.

JEROME JAMES

And OSPE can play a role in aiding the correct path forward for that transition.

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Yeah. So if we get change in provincial government and therefore may get some policy changes in those critical areas, our task will be to try and get them back on the straight and narrow.

JEROME JAMES

Wonderful. We've come to the end of our exhaustive questioning list. Is there anything that you'd like to add in conclusion of the podcast?

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Not really. One of my closing statements often is, you know, there's an awful lot of people sitting on their backside and spectating. And I'm saying, roll up your sleeves, get involved, because spectating won't get us there. Go and get something done. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

JEROME JAMES

Terrific. Thank you, Geoff, for joining us today and sharing the impactful work that the Climate Crisis Task Force is undertaking. We've learned a lot about how engineers play a crucial role in not just creating sustainable solutions for combating climate change, but influencing government policy to make those solutions a reality. Thanks again for your time today.

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Thank you very much for the opportunity. You've been a delightful host, posing lots of great questions.

JEROME JAMES

As always, thank you to our audience. We really appreciate your support. 

GEOFF SHEFFRIN

Yes. 

JEROME JAMES

And whether you're listening to us on YouTube or your favorite podcast app, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. We love hearing from you. I'm Jerome James. You've been listening to Engineering the Future, and we'll see you next time.

FEMALE NARRATOR

From all of us at OSPE, the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers, thanks for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode.